Sunday, 3 August 2014

More About The Fossil Order


Daren Hew (an objective agnost) said: "There are many other phyla that you wont find in the Cambrian. You wont find any bony fish or shark teeth in Cambrian strata for example, despite the existence of said fossils in upper strata. (There are plenty of bottom-dwelling bony fish, like flatfish that didn't get preserved in Cambrian fossil beds)"

I would say though, that since there are thousands of marine forms, should we expect a few not being there to be all that relevant? There would have been perhaps more that were obliterated. I mean, eventually, chance alone is going to create the possibility of certain burials based on whatever creatures were in that place of the particular deposition. If we DON'T assume long-ages, then the sharks in the upper-layers would also have been alive along with the organisms in the Cambrian, if most or all of the layers were part of the same flood. So logically, really all we need is sharks to be present, in any layer, if all of the layers were laid down at the same time, over weeks and months, by inundation. 

It depends on how we interpret the record. Most creation-scientists argue that fish can escape, and indeed fish are fast, but slow-movers don't. Nevertheless there is evidence of vertebrates in the Cambrian. Here are the links to the scientific articles:

HERE


"However, just last year a team of nine scientists reported well-preserved fossils of two different kinds of agnathan fish from China found in Lower Cambrian strata.10,11 The fossils are described as ‘the most convincing Early Cambrian vertebrates ever found’,11 and extend the fossil range of fish by at least 20 and possibly 50 million years in evolutionary thinking. Vertebrates had now been found at the base of the Cambrian along with all the other multi-celled animals."

Quote From:

If the Cambrian, upper or lower, does not express a significant passage of time, then to find a vertebrate in the Cambrian would be enough to prove they existed at the same time of the other marine organisms, if the Cambrian is not an "era". So I can't just ASSUME the truth of the Cambrian being an evolution "era" as that would be to assume what evolutionists have to prove, on their behalf.

No but rather, it is usually requested we provide an, "out of place" fossil. This is impossible if none can be found, but even when on occasions they can be found, the scientists will then conclude the following type of reasoning:

For example they might say: "So now we have to understand how vertebrates evolved earlier".

So those who say, "show me X and this will falsify evolution", well, that's been done before and when we find X they change the goal posts.

What tends to happen, is they then request you score through another goal they create. If there is a request to find something in the Cambrian, and if it is at the top, the request will then change to, "now show me something at the bottom of the Cambrian". Pollen is found Pre-Cambrian because it is small. Surely that is enough? But the evidence is ignored, probably regarded as inexplicable, because it's only one example. (Yet Nye and the likes tell us we only need one example? Can you see the problem yet?)

All of this is assuming that the fossil record is an evolution record. Please note, we are just seeing fully formed known-forms, not an evolution in rocks. After all what are we discussing? We are discussing things that have always existed. Fish, sharks, pollen, etc....what has this got to do with evolution? Nothing.

So the "pushing back evolution" when it is "out of place" is common. It was thought mammals rose after the dinosaurs but now they are found in their bellies, you will get statements such as, "surprisingly mammals were already well developed at this stage" (example of reasoning). There is some evidence of birds in bellies of dinos too, and apparently some pre-dated dinos. (Or so I heard, IIRC)

One has to ask, logically - how many push-backs do we allow? At what stage can evolution be falsified if it is so plastic that it can be pushed back infinitely? Because we keep finding fully-formed, unchanged, sophisticated and therefore, "modern" forms. Eyes, like sophisticated Trilobite-eyes. Pollen, mammal-hair, unchanged organisms such as Jellyfish or snails, and all types of every order.

The additional problem is the apriori and posteriori claims, which highlights the difference between predictive evidence and post-knowledge evidence.

The fossil order was generally known when Darwin formed his theory, so he didn't predict the evolutionary order, he actually based it on the already-known fossil order. This is posteriori-evidence.(None-predictive)

But if he were to make a prediction that for example, "we will find intermediatesof bats", this would be apriori-evidence if it was found. (Predictive).

Predictive = Strong scientific evidence.
None-predictive = Weak scientific evidence.

To be fair to Darwin-ites, in whatever we say about the flood, if we say it because of our post-knowledge of the fossil record, then we say it in a none-predictive, weak and conjectural fashion, also.

The only difference is the bible itself, which said there was a worldwide catastrophe, BEFORE there was a discovered fossil record. This would imply a worldwide graveyard, whether it was preserved in rocks or not, left as remnants. It is reasonable to expect circumstantial remnants, given it has been shown that sediment has been found in fossilized throats. Given we know water can do this, certainly, and is the best explanation by far for all of the odd evidence around the world.